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emeline

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Apr 28 09 9:00 AM

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I've never thought about this very much or seen it discussed but I was on GLP for a short time tonight and someone had started this topic.
 
It set me thinking......hmmm, why does the Bible refer to "Satan" as "the prince of the power of the air"? 


Smile, breathe and go slowly.’ ~Thich Nhat Hanh

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spin

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Apr 28 09 11:50 AM

It's interesting that in Chinese medicine,there are five elements but AIR is not one of them. (Earth, metal, water, wood and fire.) But if you get sick it is often blamed in their medicine on an evil wind.

Their word Chi -- life energy -- actually came from the word air.

Where am I going with this? Air is invisible and can go here and there, penetrate things and carry great power.......like energy. Air and energy are all around us.

I think saying Prince of the power of the air means satan is invisible, everywhere, can move around with power and even enter us.

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#5 [url]

Apr 28 09 12:52 PM

I think saying Prince of the power of the air means satan is invisible, everywhere, can move around with power and even enter us.   

Omnipotent then?  wink

He's also the ruler of this world.  Jesus called him the "prince" of this world. 

I think it's interesting that Jesus said he was leaving and the "prince of this world COMETH."  It's odd, because Satan was already here anyway.  Had been,  supposedly,  since god made the earth.

That old black-covered book is a curious thing, what with the goddess in it and.....everything else.

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emeline

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Apr 28 09 7:40 PM

Thanks for the answers and thoughts everyone.   Lou, you sure are right about that - curious indeed.  spin, that is an excellent and intriguing answer - thank you!  heart

Smile, breathe and go slowly.’ ~Thich Nhat Hanh

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emeline

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Apr 28 09 9:04 PM

Oh had some  more thoughts about this as I was peeling potatoes.....monkey

Much as I like spin's reflections on the topic and that answer seems to have a lot of truth in it, I was also pondering how Satan (according to the Bible) wars for our minds.  The human MIND is the battleground as it were.  Therefore if you consider what some posters on GLP threw out, some seriously, I think some thinking it was more of a joke, that maybe it could also mean AIRWAVES.   Basically it means he controls the flow of information.  In other words we're under a massive, devilish psych-op.

This would seem ludicrous if on so many levels it didn't seem to be TRUE.   From birth we're psych-opped, conditioned, subjected to a relentless onslaught of social/cultural/religious etc conditioning and even what we learned from our parents mostly comes from their CULTURE, so if you can control the culture you can pretty much control most people and families.

So just think today, what brainwashing/propaganda do we get from the mass media?  Movies, newspapers, the teeeeveee, magazines etc and ponder that in terms of Satan supposedly being the prince of the "INFORMATION" flow as well........

Smile, breathe and go slowly.’ ~Thich Nhat Hanh

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#9 [url]

Apr 29 09 2:20 AM

Well, madison, that would be my guess....but, that's just a guess.  You know?  wink

Satan in the bible is a real conundrum for me, anyway.  Is he really the enemy?  Or was he the one trying to free Adam and Eve and got cursed for his good deed?

As Jesus said, "Be wise as a SERPENT, harmless as a dove."

I'd say there's probably a whole 'nother twist to the serpent story that we don't even have a clue about. 

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tlr1138

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Apr 29 09 3:09 AM

I've always found the whole Satan story to be amusing. First, he's a created being, not a deity. Yet, he appears to have powers that are nearly god-like. He rebels against God in Heaven, but it couldn't have been a surprise to God since he's all-knowing. God repeatedly fails to create beings who will be happy or obey him. But he knows this is all going to happen anyway, before he created anything.

As Mark Twain wrote in "The Mysterious Stranger":
...a God who could make good children as easily as bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave his angels painless lives, yet cursed his other children with biting miseries and maladies of mind and body; who mouths justice and invented hell - mouths mercy and invented hell - mouths Golden Rules, and forgiveness multiplied by seventy times seven, and invented hell; who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man's acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him! . . .

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emeline

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Apr 29 09 3:26 AM

Oh I don't believe the entire literal Bible story, not by any means, although I think some parts of the Bible may be literally true.  I think much of it is smoke and mirrors and it's DESIGNED that way. Taken literally a lot of it IS nonsensical.  Even Sir Isaac Newton thought it was coded and spent years trying to crack the codes he believed were in it.   Some commentators believe many passages of the Bible have seven seals.  I don't think I believe that but I do believe some of it is sealed.   Once you work out a few keys that becomes obvious.

Satan very possibly isn't a being as such, unless he's some head honcho alien entity, as Lou and madison allude to.  He was the one who was there "in Eden" before mankind if you believe the account in the OT. In other words, it suggests he was part of some pre-Adamic race or visitation.

He may even  be just a metaphor or symbolic in some way.

That doesn't mean the OT and NT won't give real clues or information about who this "Satan" is.  I just find that "prince of the power of the air" name to be quite intriguing.

Names of Satan in the Bible:

http://www.markbeast.com/satan/names-of-satan.htm

Names of Satan

The Bible calls Satan by many different names. Each name has a slightly different meaning. The many other names for Satan give a fuller picture of who Satan is and what he does. There are more names for Satan in the Bible than for anyone else except Jesus Christ.

Abaddon

Hebrew name for Satan meaning “Destruction”. “And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.” Revelation 9:11

Accuser

“Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, ‘Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.’” Revelation 12:10

Adversary

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.” 1 Peter 5:8

Angel of light

“And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.” 2 Corinthians 11:14

Angel of the bottomless pit

“And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.” Revelation 9:11

Anointed covering cherub

"You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones." Ezekiel 28:14

Antichrist

“And every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.” 1 John 4:3

Apollyon

Greek name for Satan meaning “Destroyer”. “And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.” Revelation 9:11

Beast

“9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, ‘If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.’” Revelation 14:9,10 Who is the beast?

Beelzebub

“Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, ‘This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.’” Matthew 12:24

Belial

“And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever?” 2 Corinthians 6:15

Deceiver

“So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Revelation 12:9

Devil

“He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.” 1 John 3:8

Dragon

“So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Revelation 12:9

Enemy

“The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.” Matthew 13:39

Evil one

“I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.” John 17:15

Father of lies

“You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.” John 8:44

God of this age

“Whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.” 2 Corinthians 4:4

King of Babylon

“That you will take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say: ‘How the oppressor has ceased, The golden city ceased!’” Isaiah 14:4

King of the bottomless pit

“And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.” Revelation 9:11

King of Tyre

"Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.”’” Ezekiel 28:12

Lawless one

“8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.” 2 Thessalonians 2:8-10

Leviathan

“In that day the LORD with His severe sword, great and strong,
Will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent,
Leviathan that twisted serpent;
And He will slay the reptile that is in the sea.” Isaiah 27:1

Liar

“You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.” John 8:44

Little horn

“ 9 And out of one of them came a little horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Glorious Land. 10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them. 11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down.” Daniel 8:9-11

Lucifer

"12 How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
'I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.'” Isaiah 14:12-14

Man of sin

“3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.” 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4

Murderer

“44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.” John 8:44

Power of darkness

“13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.” Colossians 1:13, 14

Prince of the power of the air

“1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience.” Ephesians 2:1,2

Roaring lion

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.” 1 Peter 5:8

Rulers of the darkness

“For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.” Ephesians 6:12

Ruler of demons

“But some of them said, ‘He casts out demons by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.’” Luke 11:15

Ruler of this world

“31 Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. 32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” John 12:31,32

Satan

“And He was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted by Satan, and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered to Him.” Mark 1:13

Serpent of old

“So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Revelation 12:9

Son of perdition

“3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.” 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4

Star

“Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit.” Revelation 9:1

Tempter

“Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, ‘If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.’” Matthew 4:3

Thief

“The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.” John 10:10

Wicked one

“Above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.” Ephesians 6:16
This list of names for Satan has been taken from the New King James Version of the Bible.
There may be other names for Satan in the Bible. Please send me an email if you know of a name for Satan that I have missed.
Very soon Satan will leave the spirit world that he has lived in for thousands of years. He will become visible to us and will claim that he is God. The Bible calls him the beast.

Smile, breathe and go slowly.’ ~Thich Nhat Hanh

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#12 [url]

Apr 29 09 1:00 PM

re: Satan already in Eden

And, really, what kind of "Eden" was it, if he was ALREADY there?  Hmmmm.......

I'm sorry (and I was raised Southern Baptist and my first husband was an Independent Baptist preacher for the last ten years of our marriage) but, the whole Satan/garden of eden story, as we've had it interpreted to us, is a crock.

There's so much in that little deal as to be almost humorous when even a few discrepancies are pointed out.  Like the fact that there was a whole different age or world or whatever you want to call it, before "god" "created" the world/age we know.

I love the fact, that before the Noah's ark story (which is a SMALL story compared to the BIG picture of what went on there) everyone was a vegetarian.  Yup.  Everyone was a vegetarian. Right there in black-and-white.

That's enough right there to make one wonder about "god."

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donk

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Apr 29 09 2:36 PM

I don't think it's coded as much as it's twisted.  Lies sprinkled in, important truths taken, translated from oral traditions removed from events in languages and dialects that are even farther removed from our current day version of English.,,and I have never heard a christian suggestion god translated the bible, have you?  And I am pretty sure that it is accepted that (fallible) humans actually wrote it down.

Again, the minutae (I'll have to learn to spell that) is not what is important.  Satan is the idea that humans can be as powerful (or more) than god.  It's the "service to self" that's important, he and his stories are extremes of it--especially the horrible things an individual will do to others for the sake of power.  

Maybe the first invented enemy of tyrants trying to mindfuck the populace?  We have to fight him in the church so you don't have to fight him out there...leave your 10% in the tithe jar on the way out. 

I've been leaning toward the literal though, Jahweh, Satan, Set, Horus, etc....all are gods to us like we are to our pets (most people treat theirs like slaves/possession...some as part of the family/pack but that is rare).  Just beings of a higher level of knowledge, technology, awareness of reality, and consciousness.  They get to decide to if we live, die, eat, breed--shape our world.  To me it's become a sort of Okham's razor...it makes a lot more sense that people made stories and art about shit they experienced rather than completely "myths" up.

But no myths were corrupted like the Bible, (well, I don't know much about Koran), the reek of an institutionalized power structure comes through in just about everything in the new testament except for Jesus' quotes...which I beleive the power structure left relatively intact, he's their "useful idiot" (sorry, it's the expression, I have nothing but utter respect for his wisdom)...his message is universal truths for humanity, the truth needed to keep up the big lie that the creator of the universe wants us to worship him and give him gold and chooses certain peoples and it's ok he occasionally is tired of his creations so wipes them out every once a while.  I mean...come on.

but trying to point the details that are silly and contradictory to believe is dangerous, I was so into I threw the baby (Jesus) out with the bath water.  I am beleiving like em, there are literal truths way crazier sounding than satan, was it Joseph Campbell that argues the old testament/Talmud was a technical manual.  It kind of resonsates, especially Genesis/Exodus.

Off to the salt mines...PEACE

I am a product, I am a symbol/of endless, hopeless, aimless, fruitless games... ---CRASS

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emeline

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#14 [url]

Apr 29 09 9:39 PM

re: Satan already in Eden
And, really, what kind of "Eden" was it, if he was ALREADY there?  Hmmmm.......
I'm sorry (and I was raised Southern Baptist and my first husband was an Independent Baptist preacher for the last ten years of our marriage) but, the whole Satan/garden of eden story, as we've had it interpreted to us, is a crock.
There's so much in that little deal as to be almost humorous when even a few discrepancies are pointed out.  Like the fact that there was a whole different age or world or whatever you want to call it, before "god" "created" the world/age we know.
I love the fact, that before the Noah's ark story (which is a SMALL story compared to the BIG picture of what went on there) everyone was a vegetarian.  Yup.  Everyone was a vegetarian. Right there in black-and-white.
That's enough right there to make one wonder about "god."


-mtlouie

Well you know and I know most Christians don't even have a clue what's in the Bible.  If you asked most of them to write down ten of the books I think most would struggle. From what I can see the Bible from Genesis is NOT a record of the Earth's history. It says that itself.   It's a record of the time from the man called Adam  (supposedly) who seems to have suddenly appeared (if you believe the account).

So who WAS this Satan creature who was here before Adam?    This leads right into the kinds of speculations made by Zecharia Sitchin, William Bramley in The Gods of Eden etc and really as I see it that is the most LOGICAL explanation - what we now know as extra-terrestrials, alien races. 

And IF man "suddenly appeared" was man somehow "seeded here" or genetically engineered?   Did we evolve from primates or were we engineered from primates?

We know the fossil record shows increasing human brain size and that we lost the need for the third set of molars. .  We know all human embryos have tails.   Most of evolution seems to have fairly good evidence, but the scientists also say the modern human is unusually genetically homogenous. 

And the DNA evidence shows all humans trace back to these two:

The scientists have identified Mitocondrial Eve. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve
In the field of human genetics, Mitochondrial Eve refers to the matrilineal most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of modern humans. In other words, she was the woman from whom all living humans today.

And Y-chromosomal Adam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Adam
In human genetics, Y-chromosomal Adam (Y-MRCA) is the most recent common ancestor (MRCA) from whom all living people are descended patrilineally (tracing back only along the paternal lines of their family tree). Many studies report that Y-chromosomal Adam lived as early as around 142,000 years ago [1] and possibly as recently as 60,000 years ago.[


So what's the truth?  I would say something outside EVERYONE'S dogma, that's for sure.


Smile, breathe and go slowly.’ ~Thich Nhat Hanh

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emeline

Silver Monarch

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Apr 29 09 10:42 PM

I don't think it's coded as much as it's twisted.  Lies sprinkled in, important truths taken, translated from oral traditions removed from events in languages and dialects that are even farther removed from our current day version of English.,,and I have never heard a christian suggestion god translated the bible, have you?  And I am pretty sure that it is accepted that (fallible) humans actually wrote it down.
Again, the minutae (I'll have to learn to spell that) is not what is important.  Satan is the idea that humans can be as powerful (or more) than god.  It's the "service to self" that's important, he and his stories are extremes of it--especially the horrible things an individual will do to others for the sake of power.  
Maybe the first invented enemy of tyrants trying to mindfuck the populace?  We have to fight him in the church so you don't have to fight him out there...leave your 10% in the tithe jar on the way out. 
I've been leaning toward the literal though, Jahweh, Satan, Set, Horus, etc....all are gods to us like we are to our pets (most people treat theirs like slaves/possession...some as part of the family/pack but that is rare).  Just beings of a higher level of knowledge, technology, awareness of reality, and consciousness.  They get to decide to if we live, die, eat, breed--shape our world.  To me it's become a sort of Okham's razor...it makes a lot more sense that people made stories and art about shit they experienced rather than completely "myths" up.
But no myths were corrupted like the Bible, (well, I don't know much about Koran), the reek of an institutionalized power structure comes through in just about everything in the new testament except for Jesus' quotes...which I beleive the power structure left relatively intact, he's their "useful idiot" (sorry, it's the expression, I have nothing but utter respect for his wisdom)...his message is universal truths for humanity, the truth needed to keep up the big lie that the creator of the universe wants us to worship him and give him gold and chooses certain peoples and it's ok he occasionally is tired of his creations so wipes them out every once a while.  I mean...come on.
but trying to point the details that are silly and contradictory to believe is dangerous, I was so into I threw the baby (Jesus) out with the bath water.  I am beleiving like em, there are literal truths way crazier sounding than satan, was it Joseph Campbell that argues the old testament/Talmud was a technical manual.  It kind of resonsates, especially Genesis/Exodus.
Off to the salt mines...PEACE

-donk

Donk, I like the way you put that, that the "minutae is not what is important".  That's IT.  That's why I found it wasn't until I truly, open-mindedly looked OUTSIDE the Bible that a lot of the scriptures in the Bible began to make sense or I saw them in a new light, because everything, EVERYTHING needs context.   And the context is the Whole Big Picture. 

I believe you have to put scientific discoveries, sacred texts, religions, history, politics, conspiracy theories, whatever, all into the same frame to begin to truly understand any of them and be, , as Dr Thomas Campbell says, open minded AND skeptical.

And a lot of people can't do that.  Instead they advocate for various dogmas and I use the word "dogma" broadly, often missing the proverbial forest for the trees or as the aforementioned Dr Campbell says and I know Ik says, (more or less) the truth isn't found when  you compartmentalize and separate out components (religion, politics, science etc) but when you see the whole system, ergo, the Whole Big Picture.

The Bible is a part of human consciousness so what I'm interested in is not so much what the Bible literally says (the minutae as you say) but what it is telling us about human consciousness, what it is telling us about the Whole Big Picture and that's why I find it so intriguing.

For example it talks of this "Adam and Eve" and then the scientists prove that Mitocondrial Eve and Y-Chromosomal Adam are a FACT, so what does this mean?    Well it seems to mean that modern humans originated somehow in the last 60,000 to 200,000 years from a literal, scientific and biblical "Adam and Eve".   Maybe I'm simple but I just find that fascinating.  It also indicates to me what I believe in that there are deep and great truths in the Bible.  Lots of lies and deceptions too for sure......and all that you post of above, men clearly "standing in for God" because of their own personal agendas and desire to control and so on.....but if we can eliminate the contamination/pollution and try to see what's left which might be truly significant to the Whole Big Picture....I think much of it is extraordinary.

I have a lot more questions than I have answers, but this "Satan" character or being or metaphor or expression of consciousness or if you believe he is Saturn, or whatever he or it is, is certainly one of the interesting puzzles.

Smile, breathe and go slowly.’ ~Thich Nhat Hanh

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emeline

Silver Monarch

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#16 [url]

Apr 30 09 8:14 AM

Make of it what you will but I came across this 2004 paper from the Howard Hughes Medical Institute tonight:

Human Brain Evolution Was a

'Special Event'

Genes that control the size and complexity of the brain have undergone much

more rapid evolution in humans than in non-human primates or other

mammals, according to a new study by Howard Hughes Medical Institute

researchers.

The accelerated evolution of these genes in the human lineage was apparently

driven by strong selection. In the ancestors of humans, having bigger and

more complex brains appears to have carried a particularly large advantage,

much more so than for other mammals. These traits allowed individuals with

“better brains” to leave behind more descendants. As a result, genetic

mutations that produced bigger and more complex brains spread in the

population very quickly. This led ultimately to a dramatic “speeding up” of

evolution in genes controlling brain size and complexity.

“People in many fields, including evolutionary biology, anthropology and

sociology, have long debated whether the evolution of the human brain was a

special event,” said senior author Bruce Lahn of the Howard Hughes Medical

Institute at the University of Chicago. “I believe that our study settles this

question by showing that it was.”

"People in many fields, including evolutionary

biology, anthropology and sociology, have long

debated whether the evolution of the human

brain was a special event. I believe that our

study settles this question by showing that it

was."

- Bruce T. Lahn

Lahn and his colleagues reported their data in a research article published in
the December 29, 2004, issue of the journal Cell.
 
The full paper is here:
 
 
http://www.hhmi.org/news/pdf/lahn3.pdf

Smile, breathe and go slowly.’ ~Thich Nhat Hanh

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#17 [url]

May 1 09 5:47 AM

This right here:

From Dave McGowan's new post.

The message that the emergent messiah delivered to those living under the brutal hand of those Roman occupiers was, by any rational analysis, exactly the wrong one. It was a message brimming with advice about loving neighbors and turning cheeks … a message that constantly reinforced the notion that it was better to be poor and oppressed than wealthy and powerful, for the poor, you see, were going to spend all eternity in the glorious ‘Kingdom of Heaven,’ while the rich were going to burn in the fires of Hell (unless they were somehow able to steer their camels through the eye of a needle, or something like that).

It was, in other words, a belief system seemingly designed specifically to suppress any thoughts of rebellion amongst the unwashed masses. And the beauty of it was that no one would find out if the fabled actually existed until it was too late for them to get a refund.

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#19 [url]

Aug 11 10 5:31 AM

The genesis account is very old being written at a point in time very far removed from us today and it is from a entirely different culture than we have today, therefore i believe that interpreting this old book according to our modern understanding is to interpret it nothing at all like it is meant to be interpreted. Also we have a translation and translations in many instances do not reflect accurately the actual meaning of the word. If we look to strongs concordance we notice that there are many words that define the hebrew words, which were made up of pictorial illustrations often a combination of letters, each describing something that contributed to what we call 'words'. So we have a few stumbling blocks to hurdle over before we can accept what would be a correct interpretation of a translated language. There is also a right to left and left to right situation in the hebrew and aramaic languages that need to be accounted for.
Getting to genesis 3. Genesis 3:2   And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: The word serpent here are the hebrew letters Nun (a fish, life, a good life) CHet (door, fence, illumination or light = wisdom, number 8 = grace) SHeen (devouring teeth). It all seems odd but its true. So what we have is the good with wisdom between acting as a door or a fence and devouring teeth or the bad. We don't actually have a serpent at all but a comment on human nature. The Old Rabbis, before babylon and hellenism believed in what is called the yetzer natures: yetzer hara (bad nature) and yetzer hatov (good nature) this depicts our ability to choose the good or the bad by our decision making, which is what God gave us, the ability to choose. The word serpent is the translated word but is it really the correct word as there is another word better suited for a snake in hebrew, either way this translated word serpent is defined in Gesenius Lexicon as serpent, so called from its hissing. This speaks more of the sound it makes than its actual appearance. The sound it makes is when our two natures debate upon which way to go, to the good or the bad decision. This inner struggle i think is pinpointed at verse 6 "...and gave also unto her husband WITH her; and he did eat". Notice there is no conflict by adam, he did not say "hey eve, get away from that snake", "you filthy snake stop talking like that!". There is no struggle with eves rapport at all, its almost as if he put up no struggle, which might be because as she sat contemplating Gods words she began to debate within herself, as we all do, what did God really say. We can also relate this serpent to the egyptian cobra, which was a diety the egyptians held in high regard as they did most anything that moved. But this cobra, snake, serpent was a hypnotizing force, it silently would move its head from side to side appearing to render its prey unable to escape. The snake also stood for wisdom in egyptian mythology. This is a picture of familiarity to the hebrew slaves coming out of egypt. So we see many avenues, distinct yet all leading to rome so to speak. I believe that the hebrew scriptures made perfect sense to Gods people back then and that this serpent is something all together different than what christendom at large thinks it to be, a literal snake.
We can see much figurative speech, some idioms and allegory in Gen 3.
Genesis 3:14   And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
The most obvious idiom is "dust you shall eat all the days of your life", which would be few indeed, if literal dust were the snakes diet. "Upon thy belly you shall go" is a term much like the former both representing a subdued state of life. Since we may have noted that serpent is not a snake we must look at the rest of the chapters pertaining to the snake as not a literal snake but an inner compulsion to choose the good or the bad.
An important part here to make is that 'unto the' is not covered in strongs concordance and in the hebrew each time those words are omitted and the serpent, woman or man are defined. 'Unto the', are added because of our correct english grammatical syntax rules. We notice grammatical synatx rules in Genesis 3:22 where elohim is plural and so is the rest of the verse. The hebrew people did not need these words to put together their sentences, in fact their sentences are very much halty, unsmooth containing only the necessary word (pictures) to communicate what they needed. Although unto the woman and man would be grammatically correct (as would to) for the translation, recall we have defined the serpent - written nchsh - not to be a snake but an inner conflict by which the proper english grammar would then be - about the - serpent. About the inner nature, about our ability to choose.
Now an interlinear has an interesting take on this verse which reads: thou has done this being-cursed (past tense), which is different than the king james version "Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed, (present tense). The interlinear wording is much more in compliment to the fact that God had already given adam and eve the ability to choose the good and evil.
Getting back to idioms or figurative language lets consider this: "Genesis 3:3   But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die". There is a lot going on here, but much of it is not literal. Did adam and eve die? If we look at this literally, they did not - at least not for a great many years later. Midst of the garden. Did you ever wonder why this 'tree' was in the midst of the garden and not off in the far corner? All through Gods word he says, stay away from evil, avoid it at all cost, Don't parlay with heathens, lest ye be tempted, but yet in the midst of the Garden was this taboo tree. I think midst here represents something that could not be avoided. It was in their face, it was their inner nature to choose what path they would take. By their fruits ye shall know them. Don't choose that fruit or you will sin. Don't go down that path or you will sin. To continue with the style of speech. Cursed above all cattle is curious for two reasons, one being that as an animal this would make sense and the original word is defined as beast, cattle. This means that there was something special about the serpent entity that the cattle did not have, which would be human reasoning. Animals of course we know run on instinct, people compare choices and then choose. Also to say curse above all cattle does not a cattle make. Today we say dumb as a brick, stupid as a shoe, smart as a donkey, but these sayings do not make one bricks, shoes or donkeys, it is just comparative language. Comparative because there is a distinct difference between humankind and animals, the ability to choose, which is a most splendid 'curse'.
enough for now. shalom
I did all that to explain that there is no satan. Satan was not known to the hebrews. So to get on with the OP. Satan is not the prince of the power of the air, the prince of the power of air means prince of nothingness. The ruler, rules nothing. Paul is being sarcastic. As we notice in the rest of the verse:
Ephesians 2:2   Wherein in time past YE walked according to the COURSE (or ways) of this world (system), according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit (attitude) that now worketh in the children of DISOBEDIENCE:  This all refers to our yetzer natures, the ability of ourselves to choose which way we walk, which before was according to what was natural to us, our human nature, being shaped by the culture (world) around us and dictated by governments and legislatures that mean nothing to God and contradict His ways.
There is so much more and this is such a big area but i hope this suffices for now or at least will lead you toward your own research. shalome

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antelopone

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Posts: 157

#20 [url]

Aug 11 10 10:34 PM

Much of the modern bible was borrowed from previous writing of earlier cultures then rewritten by the monks and scribes of the day into their own languages. D.M. Murdock has written extensively about the true origins of many of the books of the bible. The current bible has been translated from many ancient languages many of which are no longer spoken or even understood in modern times. (You can sign up for D.M. Murdock's email list for allot of good info on the current research in this area of pre-bible cultures which the early christian leaders borrowed extensively from.) The Christian Church actively suppressed this body of pre-bible writings as heresy for 2000 years so few of these texts survive today in any quantity worldwide. -- J.E. Ante

Acharya S/D.M. Murdock
Author, "The Christ Conspiracy," "Suns of God," "Who Was Jesus?," "Christ in Egypt," "The Gospel According to Acharya S" and "The Astrotheology Calendar" series
http://TruthBeKnown.com
http://StellarHousePublishing.com
http://TBKNews.blogspot.com
http://FreethoughtNation.com
http://www.examiner.com/x-17009-Freethought-Examiner

Wars and the Word of God by J.E. Ante
http://www.articlesbase.com/religion-articles/wars-and-the-word-of-god-by-je-ante-1125509.html

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